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Some notes on Biscuits. [Vote, please, all of you.] - Wing Forums (Archive)
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> Some notes on Biscuits. [Vote, please, all of you.], Gentle questioning/angry rant.
Anubis.
What's your opinion on levelling on them?
They're great. Best monster ever. [ 6 ] ** [25.00%]
They're okay. [ 9 ] ** [37.50%]
I don't much like levelling on them... [ 3 ] ** [12.50%]
I hate them. [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
They're ridiculous, get rid of them NOW. [ 2 ] ** [8.33%]
I hate them, but I want them to stay anyway. [ 4 ] ** [16.67%]
Total Votes: 24
  
LaniReaper
post Jun 3 2008, 09:41 PM
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Anubis. Everyone knows what they are, and exactly where they are, too. And things have been that way ever since they were implemented. Then they were 'fixed', and people complained. Then, they were fixed again, and people went back to levelling on them. I can't be the only person that's starting to think if it's getting a little out of hand.

In the past few weeks, I can count five new High Priests, all of them TU-build, and all of them levelled on Anubis. And still do. This isn't a bad thing, except that most of these priests don't seem to go anywhere else, or level anywhere else. Even if you ignore the rise in High Priest population, Anubis are still the only levelling spot for all other characters. Any job I can think of has levelled at Anubis at least once, if not completely. This effectively means that almost every person on the server is levelling at the same map, on the same monsters.

To me, this doesn't speak of balance, or a normal setup. This actually sounds rather ridiculous. But, more than that, I believe it's affecting our economy adversely, too. Too many people levelling in the same place means that no new rares enter the market; just duplicates of the same rares (In this case, Recovery Rods.). In a small server like this, people have always had to go out and hunt purposefully for the rares they need, rather than just buying them off the nearest person that has one. But, as less and less people level in more exotic dungeons, the number of rares just floating around, unused, trickles down to an even smaller number.

No-one appears to be doing anything about this. Few people attempt to level anywhere else, because the straight-off-the-bat EXP is never better. You need to be using something exceptional, a particular party setup, or a particular build, to excel in any of the other high-EXP places (Abbey, Ice Caves, Thor's, Sanc, and the rest.). To a lot of people, that makes Anubis very helpful; finding a functional party at any given time in aRO is sometimes very difficult, and always annoying. But, just lately, it seems that people aren't even trying to gather a group; they seem to just head straight to Anubis, with no prior thought about "Perhaps there's a better place?"

Most likely, I'm exaggerating. But, all I've said is definitely not unfounded. But, as such, I'll like to hear everyone else's opinions on this matter, so please, vote, and post below with your own opinions if you like. Thank you.

This post brought to you by a throng of angry chimps, two pirates, a thiefbug, and the best poring. I realise the irony of a post bashing Anubis coming from someone with an Anubis avatar.

This post has been edited by LaniReaper: Jun 3 2008, 09:54 PM


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Zigniber
post Jun 3 2008, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(LaniReaper @ Jun 3 2008, 05:41 PM) *
finding a functional party at any given time in aRO is sometimes very difficult, and always annoying.

And it's even harder now that all the priests would much rather just TU more Anubises (or Abbey zombies before that) than actually help a party to level.
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Aragorn
post Jun 3 2008, 09:47 PM
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I totally disagree. This being a low rate server its pretty hard for new players to actually catch up and is mainly the reason why they all give up and just leave the server. In my opinion Anubis will defently help our server population growth.


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Zigniber
post Jun 3 2008, 09:52 PM
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There's more to catching up than just levels... That's one of the reasons I don't like seeing all this +9/+10 gear around. But that's another topic entirely.

Also, this is one of the worst things you could do for newbies, in a way, as they just spend all their time at Anubises and potentially even remort while knowing next to nothing about the game as a whole, because they never needed to.
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aznboyandy
post Jun 3 2008, 09:53 PM
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In many ways, I agree with you. It's making our economy worse than it already is. But the sad truth is, there's usually no better place than biscuits. I believe this also partly has to do with priests not having any other effective way to solo IMO(Unless you're a Battle Priest.). Sure, you could go heal bomb at Prisons, but wouldn't that be worse than going to Ice caves, Thor's, or Sanc? Wouldn't Anubis be ultimately better? The sad fact is, every place for a priest seems to be going obsolete unless there's a great deal of exp involved. I will say that I have kind of lost interest in going to some places just because they don't give as much exp, but I go anyways to help the other person level. And to our economy, there's 3 kinds of groups everyone falls under. (1. The rich that have all the rares 2. The poor people 3. The people who are poor but have rares.) A lot of people fall under the 2. or 3. category and the people who are under 1., usually just hog all of the equips. I, try to only keep the equips that only I need and try and sell it to other people(That and I don't like having extra junk in my storage). Right, I'm probably just saying gibberish now, but yea. Anubis are way too easy and need a nerf. I wouldn't mind having them turned to boss status then halved exp. That way, Priests cannot TU and their exp isn't as phenominal.

QUOTE(Zigniber @ Jun 3 2008, 04:52 PM) *
There's more to catching up than just levels... That's one of the reasons I don't like seeing all this +9/+10 gear around. But that's another topic entirely.

Also, this is one of the worst things you could do for newbies, in a way, as they just spend all their time at Anubises and potentially even remort while knowing next to nothing about the game as a whole, because they never needed to.

I agree with Celeni. When you spend your whole life in one place, you never get any knowledge of the game. You never actually learn how to play like a player. All you know how to do is, "Tele, oh look, anubis. *TU* Dead." repeat. Then when you go to War or somewhere else, you have no knowledge of doing anything but what you did at Anubis. It's like... skipping 20 levels of a game when you just started. You have no knowledge of doing anything.

This post has been edited by aznboyandy: Jun 3 2008, 09:58 PM


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AzNboyAndY - Baby Hunter 9x 50 Busy having 3k hp
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LaniReaper
post Jun 3 2008, 09:58 PM
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Andy: Priests were designed by Gravity as a primarily support class. They can build TU/ME to be different, or build battle to be really different. But, at the end of the day, I think Priests were designed, and have been supported with gear, for the idea of supporting parties. Before Anubis came along, a Priest could boost up their own EXP a few levels at Ancient Mummies or Prisons, but they primarily got their EXP from supporting a group in a place none of them could handle solo. That's part of the basis of keeping groups together for the greater gain of all the people in the party. Heck, Anubis drop an item that boosts Heal and Sanctuary. Heal doesn't need a boost if you're teleport-TU-ing, and you probably won't use Sanc at all.

I'll also agree with the idea that people should get real experience at the same rate as EXP. At Anubis, for a TU priest, the EXP outpaces the real 'experience' by miles, if you're new.

This post has been edited by LaniReaper: Jun 3 2008, 10:02 PM


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Denasaku
post Jun 3 2008, 10:35 PM
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Here is the main flaw.
Small server.
With so many people and so many classes capable of powerleveling on their own or with the assistance of a friend's alt,
why bother getting a group?
Small groups mean more exp and more money for everyone.
I can't beleive you're complaining about having too any High Priests.
aRO has been so sickeningly elitist in the past, why go back to it?
No rares?
That's because its a small server.
People are greedy. They hold onto stuff they don't need.
The few who don't, kudos to them. (Here' looking at you, Andy)
How has it ever been if someone wants an rare item?
And I mean -ever- on this server?
They ask around JUST IN CASE someone has the item they want.
Then they find out they don't have the money to buy it.
So then they either grind away for money or they grind away for the item itself.
Anubis is doing nothing but making more remorts.
I fail to see how that's bad.
Unless you're feeling threatened by all these newer players getting the same status you worked so hard for?


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LaniReaper
post Jun 3 2008, 10:56 PM
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Eurus: People levelling slowly or fast doesn't matter so much. WIth the way Gravity's updates have been going, as well as the level cap being extended, people do need to be higher levelled. My issue is with balance and just general sanity. It can't be normal, or good for the economy when every player of (almost) every level and class is levelling in the same floor of the same dungeon, when there are a handful of other good high-end dungeons they could be playing in.

This post has been edited by LaniReaper: Jun 3 2008, 11:03 PM


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aznboyandy
post Jun 3 2008, 11:03 PM
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To Eurus : See the bad thing about Biscuits are, they give you no monetary gain what so ever. Sure, there's an occasional Reco rod every 50 anubis or so, but that's probably about it. The price for Reco rods are deflating now anyways so they can't really make any money. And it's actually very disappointing to see the only remorts there are now are basicly High Priests. We went from probably... 0 active high priests to about 4 active high priests in one week, and we still have one as a High Aco. so that makes 5. Another bad thing about Biscuits are, is that when new players find out how easy priests are to level on Anubis, they'll all make priests. This'll make our server infested with one job like it has been in the past. (See : Wizards, Sins, Hunters etc). Our server lacks diversity in jobs and Biscuits aren't helping in that at all. Also, yes, they are making remorts, but how many of those remorts actually can play skillfully? All they would know how to do is TU. The fact is, Anubis give no experience to the game, it kind of takes away from the adventure you can have as a novice/first job. Heck, even as a 2nd job, it's still fun to explore. Being cramped up at 1 place just because it gives omgexp is not fun.


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aznboyandy - Alchemist 9x/50 I make illegal drugs and The Flanthing Totally level 7x
aznboyAndy - High Wizard 8x 4x Retired... for now
AznboyAndy - Sage 7x 4x Endow Slave
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Mamori
post Jun 3 2008, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE(Aragorn @ Jun 3 2008, 05:47 PM) *
I totally disagree. This being a low rate server its pretty hard for new players to actually catch up and is mainly the reason why they all give up and just leave the server. In my opinion Anubis will defently help our server population growth.


Argument about new players "catching up" is irrelevant. Might as well make them all trans characters on first job change to make them on par with some of the higher level people. If they want to "catch up," they have to work for it. Just like we all have.


Anubiscuits are just lol. The best part is seeing people and classes down there who would make a whole lot more exp somewhere else, but believe anubiscuits to be teh best exp evar amg when it isn't.

No dual clienting kind of sucks though. I can't endow my characters to go somewhere with a specialized weapon for better experience. :<

`,~


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aznboyandy
post Jun 3 2008, 11:36 PM
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Mamori : Yes, you probably could endow yourself? Make a party with your sage and smith and make your smith auto-vend. Then just endow. :u Also yes, some classes are down there even when they shouldn't be.


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Mamori
post Jun 3 2008, 11:37 PM
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Obviously. But that restricts it to only merchant classes and adventurers. =\


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Maiko
post Jun 4 2008, 01:22 AM
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Sara must be loving this.


Guys, remember Ktulla? This is a similar 'issue' to this, except where there was only 1 Ktulla on a hard map every few hours, it's a mid-level dungeon, insta-respawn and a heck of a lot more. People would complain that Ktulla farming was 'too much', and eventually he was gone. Ktulla emphasised parties and working together, and I thoroughly missed Ktulla.

Anubis emphasise solo'ing and non-party build priests, and without a priest you can't have an effective party. I know if I didn't have an aznboyandy following me around then I too would be complaining that these days it's (more) impossible to get a party priest (than it usually is)... But I do, so I won't. Oh, and Anubis are up to three times better exp/hr than Ktulla. But no OCA, alas.

QUOTE(Aragorn @ Jun 4 2008, 08:17 AM) *
I totally disagree. This being a low rate server its pretty hard for new players to actually catch up and is mainly the reason why they all give up and just leave the server. In my opinion Anubis will defently help our server population growth.


Actually... I'd wholly disagree with this. The new players we do have are the only ones not doing Anubis.

QUOTE(Denasaku @ Jun 4 2008, 09:05 AM) *
Here is the main flaw.
Small server.
With so many people and so many classes capable of powerleveling on their own or with the assistance of a friend's alt,
why bother getting a group?
Small groups mean more exp and more money for everyone.
I can't beleive you're complaining about having too any High Priests.


Actually... I think the point Lani is more getting across that people are only soloing Anubis, regardless of class. The only parties that occur are ones when someone leeches/helps their little brother/close friend. Parties have always been few and far between on aRO, but Anubis are emphasising this a great deal mostly because now even the priests don't want to party. Small groups just mean less exp for the priest, maybe if you're a low damage class like rogue you'll get more if you're in a party, but other than Madoimaru, that's a null point.


Of course, who are we to speak about Anubis people 'too awesome', when the strongest opponents against it (Lani and Andy) have used it extensively... Andy alone has probably got well over 100million exp from it. I can personally see where these arguments are stemming from, and the way things are going, but I'm not quite sure what should be done about. The obvious reason why Anubis are how they are is that in officials the level would be so clustered that only priests could be there, and even then they'd only get a fraction of the exp we get.

I like them. I level off them. But I think they might need an adjustment for our small server size [like quick spawning Ktulla]. And that the server probably owes Sara an apology. Voted 'I hate them but I want them to stay anyway'.

This post has been edited by Maiko: Jun 4 2008, 01:27 AM


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aznboyandy
post Jun 4 2008, 01:38 AM
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Kale : See, I like them, I don't mind leveling off them, but I wouldn't mind if they got nerfed. Yes, they are too easy. Yes, they give too much exp. The silly fact is, when our server finds something easy, we exploit it, and don't try to deny it either. Ktu spawning in non-quest form, exploited. Ice Wall trapping MvPs, exploited. Sins GTing mobs of monsters that wouldn't tele, exploited. Anubis being TU'd/killed by everyone easily, exploited. If it's easy exp, everyone will do it. Who doesn't want easy exp? Yes, I will say that I have leveled off of them extensively. (I've probably gotten 2x more than what you stated already). But I won't mind them getting nerfed. They ARE too easy. I voted "They're okay." because I believe they are nice yes, but are kind of too easy.

This post has been edited by aznboyandy: Jun 4 2008, 01:39 AM


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AznboYandy - High Priest 9x 6x Full Support! Finally!
AzNboyAndY - Baby Hunter 9x 50 Busy having 3k hp
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LaniReaper
post Jun 4 2008, 01:42 AM
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I like the EXP that Anubis give, I really do, but I'll still be happier with them nerfed. :n


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aznboyandy
post Jun 4 2008, 01:56 AM
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QUOTE(LaniReaper @ Jun 3 2008, 08:42 PM) *
I like the EXP that Anubis give, I really do, but I'll still be happier with them nerfed. :n

'Xactly.


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aznboyandy - Alchemist 9x/50 I make illegal drugs and The Flanthing Totally level 7x
aznboyAndy - High Wizard 8x 4x Retired... for now
AznboyAndy - Sage 7x 4x Endow Slave
AznBoyAndy - Soul Linker 90 50 Links R' Us
AznboYandy - High Priest 9x 6x Full Support! Finally!
AzNboyAndY - Baby Hunter 9x 50 Busy having 3k hp
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Aaeru
post Jun 4 2008, 02:14 AM
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Has anybody been doing Thor's since Mad Gear left? The experience there is amazing and you only really need three or four people to do it.

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post Jun 4 2008, 02:16 AM
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I'm not voting on this, simply because none of the choices express my opinion at all. Instead, I'll give my input.

I play a Paladin, as I'm sure most of you know. And, until recently, I'd been used to pretty awesomely low DPS. As such, I couldn't gather exp from any of the usual suspects on my own, or if I could, it'd take tons upon tons of sitting in between kills. Such is the life of a tanker. Honestly, I enjoyed having that playing style. Nonetheless, I've been levelling on Anubii. Why? After all the speeches I've given about how easy exp is already and how it doesn't need to be easier, why would I, of all people, head to Biscuits? Simple, really. It's something to do in a place with nothing to do. Since the Shield Chain fix, I can solo down there with very very limited resting, and it keeps me entertained. So I keep at it, even if it's not as fun as, say, Abyss 3. So that's my reason for killing Anubii. What's my opinion of Anubii themselves? They're annoyingly easy and being used too much. However, without them, I'd once again be a shiny Paladin with nothing to do, probably wouldn't play much longer, but the server would feel like a better place. They could use some extreme balancing to make other areas seem logical to play at, from exp cut, to boss flag, to timed spawning. I'd do all of those and then some, for sure. Anyway, in conclusion, 160 sp should not net a tanker 80000 exp. This is my opinion.


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aznboyandy
post Jun 4 2008, 02:26 AM
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QUOTE(Aaeru @ Jun 3 2008, 09:14 PM) *
Has anybody been doing Thor's since Mad Gear left? The experience there is amazing and you only really need three or four people to do it.

Does anyone even really have the gear do to Thor's effectively? Isn't Anubis still faster? See the problem?


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aznboyandy - Alchemist 9x/50 I make illegal drugs and The Flanthing Totally level 7x
aznboyAndy - High Wizard 8x 4x Retired... for now
AznboyAndy - Sage 7x 4x Endow Slave
AznBoyAndy - Soul Linker 90 50 Links R' Us
AznboYandy - High Priest 9x 6x Full Support! Finally!
AzNboyAndY - Baby Hunter 9x 50 Busy having 3k hp
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Katt
post Jun 4 2008, 03:46 AM
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- aRO doesn't have an economy and won't until it has a population. Let the horse alone, it's not getting up again.

- There IS no better place to level.

Nevertheless, if you have a problem with anubis being so popular (and the ONLY defensible basis for taking issue with this IMHO is that, well, it gets kind of boring when everyone is grinding the exact same creature) I'd suggest suppressing the impulse to nerf and increasing exp rates on other monsters/dungeons instead.

If it's possible (I wouldn't know) to raise exp gain by map, there's an excellent solution. If not, I can think of ways to MacGyver it. Perhaps by repopulating a high difficulty dungeon such as thanatos with clone monsters who function exactly the same as their counterparts but deliver more liquid sex experience.

^ warning: may require effort ^


If a lowly monk such as myself can think of solutions certainly someone as experienced as Sara could whip up something better.


\o_O/


But! OMG why not just nerfing anobis cause it is so much easyer?

I don't know. Maybe because pigeonholing your playerbase into mildly-entertaining-but-unproductive parties or soul-crushing solo grinds might piss them off a little. Or, to simplify, maybe because telling your players how to play is an exercise in futility.

















QUOTE(aznboyandy @ Jun 4 2008, 02:26 AM) *
Does anyone even really have the Gear do to Thor's effectively? Isn't Anubis still faster? See the problem?

I fixed this for you.

In conclusion:



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